No Freedom of Speech in Brazil

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For A2345exxx,


I'm surprised this hasn't been talked about yet (maybe it has and I missed it). Looks like Brazil hasn't progressed as much as someone claims it has. My note: if the US deported every journalist who criticized George W Bush, there would be no journalists left.


Japan Today and many, many other sources:
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=298162



Brazil gets flak for expelling New York Times reporter


Thursday, May 13, 2004 at 01:00 JST
BRASILIA — President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva came under criticism Wednesday for deciding to expel a New York Times correspondent who had written a story saying the Brazilian leader was a heavy drinker.

The newspaper protested the order against correspondent Larry Rohter and said it "would take appropriate action to defend his rights."



Rohter's visa was canceled and he was given eight days to leave the country — the first expulsion of a journalist since the 20-year military dictatorship ended in 1984. The last time a foreign journalist was expelled was in the 1970s.

"It's a political mistake. The government managed to transform a victory into a defeat — it went from victim to villain. There is no precedent for this during democracy," said Sen Jefferson Peres of the left-leaning Democratic Labor Party.

"The article was badly done, but that doesn't justify the government's decision, which is authoritarian," he said.

The article in Sunday's Times, titled "Brazilian Leader's Tippling Becomes National Concern," recapped rumors that had long been circulating among journalists in Brasilia, the capital.

Former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso said in Sao Paulo that both the article and the president's reaction were off-base.

"I have known Lula for 30 years and I can attest to the fact that he is a social drinker only," Cardoso said, using Silva's nickname. "Expelling the reporter who wrote the article, however, is an overreaction. By retaliating, they are keeping the article alive longer than it merits."

Rio de Janeiro Sen Sergio Cabral appealed the expulsion to Brazil's Supreme Court, and a court spokeswoman said a number of judges believed the decision was unconstitutional.

Times spokeswoman Catherine Mathis said via email that after consultations with legal counsel in Brazil, "we believe there is no basis for revocation of Mr Rohter's visa and would take appropriate action to defend his rights."

Times Executive Editor Bill Keller said if Brazil "intends to expel a journalist for writing an article that offended the president, that would raise serious questions about Brazil's professed commitment to freedom of expression and a free press."

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher criticized Brazil's revoking of Rohter's visa.

"First, I'd point out that we do have good relations with President Lula and his government. Obviously, the article in The New York Times did not represent the views of the U.S. government," he said.

But he said Brazil's cancellation of Rohter's visa "is not in keeping with Brazil's strong commitment to freedom of the press."

Foreign Minister Celso Amorim denied it was an attack on press freedom.

"This is not about freedom of speech. It's about a story that is libelous, injurious and false," Amorim said. "We never acted against anyone who criticized Brazil's internal or foreign policy, but it is another thing to offend the honor of the chief of state."

Members of the president's usually cohesive Workers' Party attacked the decision.

"The government's decision was a wrong and dangerous measure from a democratic point of view, because it is an authoritarian gesture," said Sen Cristovam Buarque. "It sets a dangerous precedent."

The Foreign Press Association said "this drastic attitude is a warning to foreign correspondents in the sense that to work in Brazil, your duty is to write articles that please the government."

Rohter's whereabouts were not immediately known. His office said he was out of the country.

If so, he won't be allowed to re-enter, said Roberto Busato, president of the Brazilian Bar Association.

"If the government had one gram of sense, it would reverse this decision," Busato said. "This decision hurts Brazil's image even more than The New York Times article." (Wire reports)
 

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That's not as bad as the US closing down an entire Iraqi newspaper.

The journalist wasn't Brazilian, so I'm not sure you can really apply the 'rights and priviledges' argument in this case the same way you would to one of its own.
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>if the US deported every journalist who criticized George W Bush, there would be no journalists left <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a difference between criticizing someone and outright lying but I do think that he acted wrongly regardless.
 

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whats next for brazil? round up all the jews.what a real disgusting place.cmon brazil let freedom ring.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's not as bad as the US closing down an entire Iraqi newspaper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me ask you this, xpanda. Would you be more concerned by someone calling you a drunk or someone calling for people to kill you or anyone who cooperates with the U.S.-led coalition? Freedom of the press was not guaranteed by the coalition regulations. Sorry.
 

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What this probably means is that Brazil is heading towards the same path as Venezuela with their fascist dictatorship.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Another nice demonstration of Mike's geographic ignorance.

Brazil is hardly 3rd world, but I guess to a xenophobe, any brown shoe will fit.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Uncle Moneybags:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's not as bad as the US closing down an entire Iraqi newspaper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me ask you this, xpanda. Would you be more concerned by someone calling you a drunk or someone calling for people to kill you or anyone who cooperates with the U.S.-led coalition? Freedom of the press was not guaranteed by the coalition regulations. Sorry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't understand this. If a paper in Canada or the United States printed articles exhorting its readers to kill cops, congressmen, or evil dairy farmers, would Expanda be outraged if it was shut down?

There are limits to freedom of the press.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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SHOTGUN: There are limits to freedom of the press.

BAR: No there are not.

Newspapers in the U.S. can most certainly call for the death of cops, congressman or anyone else they wish. And some do.

However if they were to write it in such a way as to demonstrate their intent to actually carry out such actions, or to assist someone else in doing it, they could be charged with crimes.

But their freedom to express a desire to see someone dead cannot legally be abridged.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Oops, the last comment was meant to apply to the United States only. I am not as familiar with Canadian laws in this area, so my statement may not apply for them.
 

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You can't yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater either if there is no fire (and stuff like that).

Looks like Brazil has backed down and they're going to let the guy stay. Brazil claims the journalist sent a letter of apology and the NY Times said there was no retraction or apology in the letter.

This part still gets me though:

"The Justice Ministry on Tuesday ordered the cancellation of correspondent Larry Rohter's visa on the grounds that his May 9 article offended the honor of the president and the nation."

"...offended the honor of the president and the nation." ...like royalty.

The President of Brazil is a douchebag (sp?), sorry your Highness.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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My comment above was not applied to Freedom of Speech (ala the "FIRE!" comment), but rather to Freedom of the Press.

The government cannot legally supress the publication of any words one wants to print, except as noted in my cites above.
 

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Bar, what are obscenity laws? What if the local rag wanted to print a nude picture of a 12 year old girl? Or instructions to building a nuclear bomb using nothing but dishwashing soap and manure? Or plans for the Normandy invasion? Or the name of a rape victim? Or reporting an accused criminal's name if the accused is under 17 years old?

You see limits to the press all over the place.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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BAR: First, read my statements above carefully, notably - The government cannot legally supress the publication of any words one wants to print, except as noted in my cites above.

Now,


SHOTGUN: Bar, what are obscenity laws?

They are laws which vary from community to community. However they do not bar a newspaper from printing what they wish.

SG: What if the local rag wanted to print a nude picture of a 12 year old girl?

BAR: It would depend on the context. If she were simply posing in a non-sexual manner, it would not violate any obscenity law. If she were posing sexually, the laws you imply are those related to child pornography. In such a case, the newspapers' words are not being censored, only photo images that violate obscenity laws.

SG: Or instructions to building a nuclear bomb using nothing but dishwashing soap and manure?

BAR: Well I think you know that's a sillyass example, since a nuclear bomb requires plutonium and/or other ingredients....Let's pretend you meant, "...a bomb...."

There is no law which prohibits a newspaper from printing such instructions. If it could be demonstrated that the newspaper printed it with the intent to help someone actually make a bomb and that bomb was then used in an illegal fashion, then a different set of laws comes into play. But the right to print the words cannot legally be abridged.

SG: Or plans for the Normandy invasion?

BAR: There is no law which would prevent them from printing military orders. The charges would be leveled against whoever gave them the information...maybe.

SG: Or the name of a rape victim? Or reporting an accused criminal's name if the accused is under 17 years old?

BAR: I am reasonably certain that both of those limitations are self imposed by mainstream newspapers, not government censored. I am happy to be corrected if you can provide a cite.
 

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Bar, I'd consider the ability to print photos part of the freedom of the press. Obscenity laws obviously limit this freedom. In exceptional circumstances only is the government allowed to use prior restraint regarding the press. This includes circumstances of national security as well as fighting words; you can not incite rioting or mass murders which is what the Al-Sadr's Iraqi paper was doing. Here is one specific case:

"U.S. v. Progressive, Inc. (1979 - "The H-Bomb Secret, How We Got It, and Why We're Telling" Case) - Progressive magazine announced plans to publish instructions, complete with sketches, on how to build an H-bomb in your basement, and the government sought to stop publication and threatened to obtain every copy. The reporter who wrote the article had apparently visited several DOE facilities and deduced critical information from sensitive documents in plain view or from interviews with DOE employees. In a compromise gesture, the government offered to ban only 20% of the article, but the magazine refused, and instead encouraged a homemade H-bomb contest through the Chicago Tribune. The Supreme Court came down heavily, ruling that the lesser of two evils involves infringing upon freedom of the press for the sake of avoiding thermonuclear annihilation.

The above case draws attention to a reporter's right to access and highlights what the Court calls the "government right to withhold information that is not a matter of public record." The ways a judiciary imposes sanctions on the media include "injunctions" (stop orders, cease and desist orders) and "gag orders" (used mainly to avoid adverse pretrial publicity and rely upon voluntary cooperation by the press)."
 

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barman in my book brazil is a third world dump.case closed.i also use this same premise on the lice infested mattress on the floor shithole dump you live in..
 

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I heard a stat that 80 million people in Brazil live on less than one dollar a day. That's not my idea of an advanced society or nation.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A2345exxx:
Brazil is a very rich country with a lot of poor people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like the USA...???


(Man thats a cheap shot. but...well... you get my general drift)

...unless it isn't true of course.
 

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